In the Strahd night attack at the Bluewater Inn, fireball was cast way in the corner of one room. Door was open, so it spread around corners. I wasn't sure if it was going to really hit every single square b/c of the way it looked, but I got it mostly right I think.
In the nighthag old bonegrinder fight, I think i did it right. Sickening radiance spread in a sphere, so it covered about half of the 2nd and 3rd floors but not all the way. Just eyeballed it and said it covered about half of the upstairs, but all of the downstairs.
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PHB 3.5e says [they were talking about an example wall half your height or less]:
Cover and Reflex Saves: Cover grants you a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against attacks that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover from you, such as a red dragon’s breath weapon or a lightning bolt. Note that spread effects (see page 175), such as a fireball, can extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus.
But also says:
Varying Degrees of Cover: In some cases, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. For instance, a character peering around a corner or through an arrow slit has even better cover than a character standing behind a low wall or an obstacle. In such situations, the DM can double the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves (to +8 and +4, respectively). A creature with this improved cover effectively gains improved evasion against any attack to which the Reflex save bonus applies (see the improved evasion ability in the rogue class description, page 51). Furthermore, improved cover provides a +10 bonus on Hide checks.
The DM may impose other penalties or restrictions to attacks depending on the details of the cover. For example, to strike effectively through a narrow opening, you need to use a long piercing weapon, such as an arrow or a spear. A battleaxe or a pick just isn’t going to get through an arrow slit.
And then also says later:
An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres. Example: detect magic.A spread spell spreads out like a burst but can turn corners. You select the point of origin, and the spell spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns the spell effect takes. Example: fireball.Cone, Cylinder, Line, or Sphere: Most spells that affect an area have a particular shape, such as a cone, cylinder, line, or sphere.A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes. Most cones are either bursts or emanations (see above), and thus won’t go around corners. Example: cone of cold.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD5e/comments/grrvzo/soindoor_fireballs_and_other_explosive_effects_in/
Sums it up, although sickening radiance is special cuz it is [even tho 3d] a sphere, and it does go around corners too [some spheres don't]:
I think the 5e stance is basically "You drop a template and it fills up the area it covers unless something is totally walled off."
It doesn't expand or worry about 'physics' for the most part.
D&D, especially 5e, is basically '2D' with some occasional 'fake' 3d. For the most part, everything assumes a 2d plane with some occasionally notes about breaking the plane.
The older rules (AD&D) turned a fireball into a sort of bomberman mess where you had to determine how much volume it filled, and calculate that. It was quite lethal, sure... But also no-fun to use, and many groups hand-waved it because it wasn't actually a very fun option. By RAW you'd wipe out half a dungeon, sure... But you'd also have to see if any flammable loot survived.
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Quoting the guys quotes:
If you're in a solid concrete bunker with no openings, the enemy can't target you with such an effect because there's no way to reach you - but if there's just a short 5-foot wall, fireball can easily spread around that cover to reach you.
Thia is further clarified under the rules for targeting, specifically requiring a clear path to the target:
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.
Fireball specifies that "The fire spreads around corners." because it ignores this restriction. If there is any part of the area behind cover within the radius, and that part is not totally blocked from the parts affected by the fireball, it is also in the area of effect. A single 5-foot wall, for instance, won't protect you from a fireball unless you're just outside the area of effect already.
and
Full cover gives an explanation about spells being able to reach a target despite full cover.
Page 204 of the PHB under rule clear path to the target also states.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of the obstruction."
Under Area of effect also page 204
A spells point of origin extends out ward in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the the point of origin to the area of effect, that location isn't included in spells area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover, as explained in chapter 9.
P241 Fireball (cliff notes)
...to a point you choose within range and then blossoms with a low roar into an explosion of flame....The fire spreads around corners...
With the way fireball is worded it.
- Does not move in a straight line.
- even if it is placed on the near side of an obstruction will go around corners
- Even if there is full cover it will spread around corners.
- No, but maybe will burn it down and kill the door ("semi-slowly"), but even a flimsy door probably prevents "around corners" since it's a mostly instant effect.
Guy said:
Assuming he's talking about a dungeon with stone walls. I don't think you could ever do enough damage with a fireball to break the walls down.
Fireball is just flame and heat, there's no 'force' to it. It doesn't get hot enough to melt stone or metal, otherwise it'd be insta kill to everyone in the aoe. And on top of that the heat only lasts for a second, it's not continuous.
I doubt you'd even be able to destroy a tree with fireball, unless the flame took and you burnt it down over time.
Had a new player drop an eighth fireball on the second to top floor of a tower they were in that was 10x10. They brought down the ceiling, fell through two more floors, and landed right in front of a matron mother with low health and only three spell slots left between them.
EDIT :
fun fact: spell sculpt in 5e allows you to create pockets of safety for other creatures if you so choose.
other
Mike mearls says that apparently the Other doesnt count in spell sculpt and you can count yourself as one of the creatures. I question why they worded that way, but my idea for FIREBALL TARGET SELF build is BACK IN BUSINESS!
UPDATE: Interesting different takes over here - https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/va4wkj/how_do_you_rule_fireball_spreads_around_corners/
NOTE: Old AD&D fireball did crazy stuff like fill volume and burn up your non-magic items, even 75% chance of your gold going bye bye. But enemies could move out of the way b4 it went off and stuff, see old:
You find a fireball scroll! Would you like to read the tutorial?Yes
A fireball can be approximated as 33 10' cubes. It will melt gold and other soft metals, and will ignite anything not in a creature's possession with a flash point below the melting point of gold (1900+ degrees Fahrenheit.) Anyone who fails their saves needs to make saving throws vs. magical fire for all items in their possession. Your spellbook, dungeon map, and other papers, for example, have a 10% chance to successfully save, whereas your gold has a much more reasonable 75% chance. (((My note, it only melts gold, doesn't destroy. But it will destroy paper stuff. Could probably do some goofy, write on papyrus paper and keep it and a wrapped cover thing very damp to prevent fire.)))Bear in mind that you cannot move and cast in the same round, nor can you cast wizard spells while armored. Anyone who wins initiative will have the opportunity to move before your spell goes off. (((My note, Do WHAT?!))) Anyone who lands an attack on you, an easier task than normal because you lose DEX bonuses while casting, will fizzle your spell, expending the scroll and ending your turn.
EVEN MORE FIREBALL VERSION FUN through the ages, red stuff is my highlights:
https://www.enworld.org/threads/fireball-throughout-the-ages.670886/
Dungeons & Dragons [original edition] (OD&D)
Fire Ball: A missile which springs from the finger of the
Magic-User. It explodes with a burst radius of 2" (slightly larger than
specified in CHAINMAIL). In a confined space the Fire Ball will
generally conform to the shape of the space (elongate or whatever). The
damage caused by the missile will be in proportion to the level of its
user. A 6th level Magic-User throws a 6-die missile, a 7th a 7-die
missile, and so on. (Note that Fire Balls from Scrolls (see Volume II)
and Wand are 6-die missiles and those from Staves are 8-die missiles.
Duration: 1 turn. Range: 24"
Expert Dungeons & Dragons (ED&D)
Fire Ball
This spell creates a missile of fire that bursts into a ball of fire 40'
across (20' radius) when it strikes a target. The fire ball will do 1-6
(1d6) points of fire damage per level of the caster to each creature
within the sphere of fire. EXAMPLE: A fire ball cast by a 6th level
magic-user will burst for 6-36 (6d6) points of damage. If the victim of
the fire ball saves vs. Spells, the spell will only do half damage.
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons [1st edition] (AD&D1)
Fireball (Evocation)
Level: 3
Range: 10" + 1"/level
Duration: Instantaneous
Area of Effect: 2" radius sphere
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 3 segments
Saving Throw: 1/2
A fireball is an explosive burst of flame, which detonates with a
low roar, and delivers damage proportionate to the level of the
magic-user who cast it, i.e. 1 six-sided die (d6) for each level of
experience of the spell caster. Exception: Magic fireball wands
deliver 6 die fireballs (6d6), magic staaves with this capability
deliver 8 die fireballs, and scroll spells of this type deliver a
fireball of from 5 to 10 dice (d6 + 4) of damage. The burst of the fireball
does not expend a considerable amount of pressure, and the burst will
generally conform to the shape of the area in which it occurs, thus
covering an area equal to its normal spherical volume. [The area which
is covered by the fireball is a total volume of roughly 33,000 cubic feet (or yards)]. Besides causing damage to creatures, the fireball ignites all combustible materials within its burst radius, and the heat of the fireball
will melt soft metals such as gold, copper, silver, etc. Items exposed
to the spell's effects must be rolled for to determine if they are
affected. Items with a creature which makes its saving throw are
considered as unaffected. The magic-user points his or her finger and
speaks the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to
burst. A streak flashes from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts
upon a material body prior to attaining the prescribed range, flowers
into the fireball. If creatures fail their saving throws, they
all take full hit point damage from the blast. Those who make saving
throws manage to dodge, fall flat or roll aside, taking 1/2 the full hit
point damage --- each and every one within the blast area. The material
component of this spell is a tiny ball composed of bat guano and
sulphur.
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Second Edition (AD&D2)
Fireball (Evocation)
Range: 10 yds. + 10 yds./level
Duration: Instantaneous
Area of Effect: 20-ft. radius
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 3
Saving Throw: 1/2
A fireball is an explosive burst of flame, which detonates with a low
roar and delivers damage proportional to the level of the wizard who
cast it--1d6 points of damage for each level of experience of the
spellcaster (up to a maximum of 10d6). The burst of the fireball creates
little pressure and generally conforms to the shape of the area in
which it occurs. The fireball fills an area equal to its normal
spherical volume (roughly 33,000 cubic feet--thirty-three 10' x 10' x
10' cubes). Besides causing damage to creatures, the fireball ignites
all combustible materials within its burst radius, and the heat of the
fireball melts soft metals such as gold, copper, silver, etc. Exposed
items require saving throws vs. magical fire to determine if they are
affected, but items in the possession of a creature that rolls a
successful saving throw are unaffected by the fireball.
The wizard points his finger and speaks the range (distance and height)
at which the fireball is to burst. A streak flashes from the pointing
digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior
to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball (an early
impact results in an early detonation). Creatures failing their saving
throws each suffer full damage from the blast. Those who roll successful
saving throws manage to dodge, fall flat, or roll aside, each receiving
half damage (the DM rolls the damage and each affected creature suffers
either full damage or half damage [round fractions down], depending on
whether the creature saved or not).
The material component of this spell is a tiny ball of bat guano and sulphur.
Dungeons & Dragons [3rd edition] (D&D3)
Fireball
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes
A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar
and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to
every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this
damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.
You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at
which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks (((SELF NOTE, i never liked the sound of a bead))) from
the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid
barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball
at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you
attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through and
arrow slit, you must "hit" the opening with a ranged touch attack, or
else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates permaturely [prematurely].
The fireball sets fire to combustables [combustibles] and damage objects in the
area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold,
copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing
barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
Material Component: A tiny ball of bat guano and sulfur.[/quote]
Dungeons & Dragons [4th edition] (D&D4)
A globe of orange flame coalesces in your hand. You hurl it at your enemies, and it explodes on impact.
Area: burst 3 within 20 squares
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Damage: 3d6 + Intelligence modifier fire damage
[[cbwjm An addition to the 4e fireball, it was later updated to be 4d6+intelligence modifier.
- Lanefan says: So...from pathetic to still-pathetic.That extra die adds 3.5 points damage on average, which if you're a minion is irrelevant (because you're dead or not regardless) and if you're not a minion is still irrelevant (because 3.5 hit points to most 4e creatures is a tiny drop in a big bucket).]]
Miss: Half damage
Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition
Fireball
3rd level evocation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 150 feet
Components: V S M (A tiny ball of bat guano and sulfur)
Duration: Instantaneous
Classes: Sorcerer, Wizard
A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose
within range then blossoms with a low roar into an explosion of flame.
Each creature in a 20-foot radius sphere centered on that point must
make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a
failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
The fire spreads around corners. It ignites flammable objects in the area that aren't being worn or carried.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 3rd.
Lanefan guy's note below (((and MY NOTE, this has irked me every edition I see come out, making it weaker. Fireball/Lightning Bolt is supposed to be The Reason you picked mage, it is supposed to be very battle changing, a very big deal, very scary. Also to mention, HP have gone way up like in 5e, and also char stats have gone way up, like Dex saves are easier b/c everybody has +++ modifiers and like no negatives nowadays ))):
Amazing how the damage drops on average over the editions*...
OD&D - d6/level
Expert - d6/level save for half
1e - d6/level save for half
2e - d6/level save for half, capped at 10d6
3e - d6/level save for half capped at 10d6 (metamagics could boost initial damage)
4e - 3d6 + Int modifier, save for half (metamagics could increase number of damage dice)
5e - 8d6 save for half (metamagics could increase number of damage dice)
...while at the same time everybody's - monster and PC alike - hit points generally increase.
* - the exception beng 5e, which - rather oddly - has the highest damage of all for casters of 5th-7th level yet by 9th caster level, absent metamagics, has lower damage than any other version except 4e.
Another big difference is that in 2e and earlier the fireball expanded to fill its entire volume, where in 3e and later it doesn't.
J-H says (((and I probably agree))):
Lightning bolts used to bounce also. Lightning Bolt really needs to be widened to a 10' wide strip, or have bouncing added back.
13th Age, JeffB says (((13th Age is another game, similar to 3.5e and Pathfinder. )))One common misread of the infamous "Pinball Wizard" spell was that it didn't bounce around the room. It bounced back at the caster. You couldn't actually play pimball with it, but you could fry yourself and your party if you weren't careful.
Summary Hit: 10d10 to 20d10 fire damage. But only target 1d3 enemies till you get a feat to ... eventually 2d3+1, some things could hurt allies if next to enemy.
13th Age
"It's traditional to roll heaps of dice with Fireball. If you're going to use dice conventions everywhere else and roll them all for one spell, roll them here" Which I guess is them saying roll dice for this, even if you use static average damage everywhere else in the game.
Fireball
Ranged spell; Daily
Special: When you cast this spell, you can choose to cast it recklessly.
Target: 1d3 nearby enemies in a group. If you cast recklessly, you can target 1d3 additional enemies, but then your allies engaged with the target may also take damage (see below).
Attack: Intelligence + Level vs. PD
Hit: 10d10 fire damage.
Miss: Half damage.
Reckless miss: Your allies engaged with the target take one-fourth damage.
7th level spell 12d10 damage.
9th level spell 20d10 damage.
Champion Feat Casting the spell recklessly increases the number of additional targets to 1d4 instead of 1d3.
Epic Feat Increase the number of targets to 1d3 + 1 instead of 1d3.
OTHER COMMENT:
AD&D: 300'
3.x: > 400'
5e: 150'
So you're saying the range on Fireball in 5e is too short, right?
ANSWER: Too much range makes it hard to GM, b/c everybody off map on computer.
Fireball
FIREBALL
SPELL 3
Evocation Fire
Traditions arcane, primal
Cast [two-actions] somatic, verbal
Range 500 feet; Area 20-foot burst
Saving Throw basic Reflex
A roaring blast of fire appears at a spot you designate, dealing 6d6 fire damage.
Heightened (+1) The damage increases by 2d6.
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