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Monday, April 7, 2025

D&D Basic, B/X, BECM, BECMI

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B0BTZgYxrI&list=LL&index=23&t=2887s&pp=gAQBiAQB

My take: Once again Willy Muffin has some of the best info on what books are what, the various versions of Basic, and some cool history. His English accent/way to saying things... he spells out "B E C M I", doesn't use the shortcut "beckmee" pronounciation that a lot of youtubers use. He started with "basic" and still loves it, but he mostly played AD&D1e back then, and 4 years ago was on 5e DnD. 

The Holmes (1977) version. The Moldvay (1981), the Mentzer (1983 red box with the super art), and the Rules Encyclopedia in 1991. (((Sounds like they are all super close, but the 1981 version is perhaps the easier to use with the other ones since it is sort of in the middle rules-wise.)))

  • ENWORLD, of course, has the details about rules when you play.
  • WIKIPEDIA, further down, has info on physical differences, names of artists, etc. etc. 

1983


Via ENworld's Remathilishttps://www.enworld.org/threads/so-what-is-the-difference-between-basic-b-x-and-becmi.258419/  ... LOTS MORE DETAILS in that thread. 

"The Basic D&D sets comes in three revisions: The Holmes (original), the Moldvay/Cook Basic/Expert (B/X) and the Mentzer Basic/Expert/Companion/Masters/Immortals (BECMI).
What are the differences between the three? Are they as radically different as AD&D editions are?

It seems that most people who refer to Basic refer to B/X (Moldvay/Cook), and not Holmes or Mentzer/BECMI. I'm curious as to why."


Ariosto

The Holmes edition mainly compiled material from the original D&D set and Greyhawk supplement, plus some bits (e.g., revised spell descriptions) from the AD&D work in progress and a helping of Holmes innovations (e.g., the shorter combat turn).

A notable difference from later Basic sets is that ability score bonuses are mostly just those of the original D&D set, although constitution allows up to +3 per hit die (bonuses still starting at a score of 15). Strength and wisdom simply give XP bonuses to fighters and clerics respectively, and dexterity (besides being the prime requisite for thieves) gives a bonus with missiles. The charisma table was omitted, although effects were suggested.

The intelligence table from Greyhawk was incorporated to determine an m-u's spells known. An interesting twist was that even mages of low level (Holmes treated the first three) could make scrolls.

Elves were described as advancing simultaneously as fighters and magic-users, dividing XP equally, with six-sided hit dice -- a bit of confusion cleared up in later versions. The characters in Module B1 included separate elven fighting men and magic-users, and thieves of all four races; all the clerics were human, though.

Per Greyhawk, thieves had no special ability to find traps, and removal was indicated as applying to "small traps such as poisoned needles". Per the original set, traps by default sprang only on a 1 or 2 on d6.

Alignments were five: LG, LE, N, CG, CE.

There were only 70 kinds of magic item: 7 categories with weighted probabilities, then an equal chance for each of the 10 entries in the category. Swords followed the OD&D convention of adding damage only versus foes against which they got a special, higher bonus to hit. There was no treatment of intelligent swords.

The monster list was quite comprehensive; I'm not sure it left out any from the original set, and there were additions from Greyhawk. Besides the hit dice from that work, the multiple attacks and damage dice were incorporated for monsters -- although all characters' weapons still did 1d6.


Dyson Logos

(I'm doing this from memory, because my books are over at my girlfriend's right now - so pardon any mistakes. I also haven't read Holmes basic in YEARS)

Holmes Basic has some material that made it into AD&D1e. Stuff like chance to know spells based on Int for wizards. It also seperates class and race and has 20sp to the gp. There are 5 alignments.

Moldvay / Cook Basic (B/X) uses 10 sp to the gp, combines race and class into one field, and mostly standardizes attribute bonuses. 3 Alignments.

BECMI adds scaling weapon proficiencies, non-combat skills, nerfs the thief skills (because obviously the thief needed to become even less useful), and adds material above level 14 to the game.

While I like the Rules Cyclopedia, I get bummed out every time I see the poor thief skills.


rogueattorney

The Holmes set is really it's own beast. It's halfway between OD&D and AD&D, with a few odd rules that are unique to to it... Basing initiative on Dexterity, the 5-prong alignment chart, etc.

The B/X and the BE portion of BECMI, are pretty much identical, a few different spells, a couple diferences in the saving throw charts, not much else different. Most of the difference are at 7th level or higher. The only real difference in the Basic rules were presentation, with the 1981 rules being concise and straightforward, and the 1983 rules being a tutorial walk through.

Of course, the CMI portion of BECMI contains all sorts of things that weren't in the BX game, not all of them just high level stuff. Depending on to what extent you integrate things like the Mystics and other new classes, Weapon Skills, demi-human attack ranks, the Immortal rules, and so on, into your low-level game, you may have a very different beast from B/X.

The Rules Cyclopedia is basically a compilation of the BECM portion of BECMI. It has most, but not all of the first four boxes. It also has a number of things that were introduced in the Gazetteer series. Most notably, the Non-Weapon Skills. But also things like a more detailed spell research system.

Really, it's all nitpicking. You're going to be able to use anything for D&D written in 1991 for the 1977 set and vice versa.

For being comprehensive, you'd want the RC[Rules Cyclopedia], even though there are things in it that I think are poorly written (the combat rules), and a lot of stuff that I, personally, would never use in my game. If you're looking for a nice concise well-written set of rules, either the Holmes (1977) or Moldvay (1981) rules will do. And then use the 1981 Cook Expert rules to continue on past 3rd level. (The Cook rules have an opening note for conversion from the Holmes set.) I think the 1983 Mentzer set is best for people who have no familiarity with rpg's at all. It's too scattered to be a good reference for my taste.


Voadam

I'm currently reading the Holmes set cover to cover and it is . . . different. I haven't read the others in a long while.

Nobody advances in attacks or saves. Fighters can use any armor and get d8 HD. They can use any weapon, but all weapons do a d6 so the wizard is not worse off with daggers (fighters can use bows for further range though). Str does not seem to do extra damage. Fighters still seem the best off because wizards get their one and done spell (though they can make scrolls for 100 gp/level and one week of scribing), thief abilities won't work 80% or more of the time, and clerics only get armor, turning, and d6 HD. Plate mail is cheap enough to be bought with starting gold. Magic missile requires a full attack roll and acts like a +1 arrow. Sleep is the only big gun spell.

Significantly different rules for monsters, they can all see in the dark, dungeon doors work for them unless spiked while players must force them open, their attacks get better with more HD, etc.


Via wikipedia:

"The original Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set was published by TSR, Inc. in 1977.[1]

TSR hired outside writer John Eric Holmes to produce the Basic Set as an introductory version of the D&D game. It incorporates game concepts from the original 1974 D&D boxed set plus Supplement I: Greyhawk.[2] The rulebook is intended for characters of levels one through three, with rules for adventuring in dungeons, and introduces the main concepts of the game;[2] it explains the game's concepts and method of play in terms that make them accessible to new players ages twelve and older who might not be familiar with the rules and structure of tabletop miniatures wargaming. Although the Basic Set was not fully compatible with Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, players were expected to continue play beyond third level by moving to AD&D,[2][3] which was released beginning later that year. Holmes preferred a lighter tone with more room for personal improvisation, while Gary Gygax, who wrote the Advanced books, wanted an expansive game with rulings on any conceivable situation which might come up during play, and so could be used to arbitrate disputes at tournaments.[2]

...

The first Basic Set was available as a 48-page standalone rulebook featuring artwork by David C. Sutherland III, or as part of a boxed set,... [boxed set put in Toy Isles.] 

In that same year, Games Workshop (U.K.) published their own version of the rulebook, with a cover by John Blanche, and illustrations by Fangorn.

...

After the September 1979 disappearance of James Dallas Egbert IIIDungeons & Dragons received "mainstream notoriety. And with that, sales of the Basic Set rose dramatically. Right before the steam tunnel incident, the Basic Set might have sold 5,000 copies a month. By the end of 1979, it was trading over 30,000 copies per month, and only going up from there".[7] Following Carr's financial success due to his module being included in the boxed set, Gygax changed the module included with the Basic Set to Keep on the Borderlands which was a module he wrote.[7]

...

1981 revision

After the release of the AD&D game, the Basic Set saw a major revision in 1981 by editor Tom Moldvay.[2] The game was not brought in line with AD&D but instead further away from that ruleset, and thus the basic D&D game became a separate and distinct product line from AD&D. The former was promoted as continuing the tone of original D&D, while AD&D was an advancement of the mechanics.[8]

...color cover by Erol Otus...

The book came drilled with holes so that it could be used in a three-ringed binder, and the full set of off-white polyhedral dice came in a heat-sealed bag with a small wax crayon for coloring the numbers on the dice.

...The revised rulebook was visually distinct from the previous version: the Holmes booklet had a monochrome pale blue cover, while the Moldvay rulebook had a bright red cover.

...

With the revision of the Basic Set, distinct rulesets for higher character levels were introduced as expansions to the basic game.[11] Immediately following the Moldvay version of the Basic Set was the accompanying release of an Expert Set which was edited by Dave Cook with Steve Marsh that supported character levels four through fourteen, with the intent that players would continue with the Expert Set.

...

1983 revision


n 1983, the Basic Set was revised again, this time by Frank Mentzer, and redubbed Dungeons & Dragons Set 1: Basic Rules.


The set included a sixty-four page Players Manual,[13] a forty-eight page Dungeon Masters Rulebook,[13] six dice,[2] and in sets in which the dice were not painted, a crayon.[6] The 1983 revision was packaged in a distinctive red box, and featured cover art by Larry Elmore.[2] Between 1983 and 1986, the system was revised and expanded by Mentzer as a series of five boxed sets, including the Basic Rules (red cover), Expert Rules (blue),[14] Companion Rules (teal, supporting levels fifteen through twenty-five),[15] Master Rules (black, supporting levels twenty-six through thirty-six),[16] and Immortals Rules (gold, supporting Immortals, characters who had transcended levels).[17] Instead of an adventure module, the Basic Set rulebooks included a solo adventure and an introductory scenario to be run by the Dungeon Master.[2]

The rules for the game were little changed from the Moldvay set, but the presentation was overhauled into a more tutorial form, to make the game easier for younger players to learn.

The 10th Anniversary Dungeons & Dragons Collector's Set boxed set, published by TSR in 1984, included the rulebooks from the BasicExpert, and Companion sets; modules AC2AC3B1B2, and M1 Blizzard PassPlayer Character Record Sheets; and dice. This set was limited to a thousand copies, and was sold by mail and at GenCon 17.

1991 revision

In 1991, TSR released a new version of the Basic Set, labeled The New Easy-to-Master Dungeons & Dragons Game and nicknamed the "black box". This version was principally designed by Troy Denning and made few changes to the game. It included support for characters up to fifth level instead of the third-level limit of prior Basic Set versions.

TSR published the Dungeons & Dragons Rules Cyclopedia the same year, compiling and revising the rules from the BasicExpertCompanion, and Master Rules box sets to allow players to continue beyond the black box.

1994 revision

A final version of the set entitled The Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game was produced in 1994. ... It was packaged in a tan-sided box.



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