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Tuesday, October 17, 2023

D&D DnD, spells... why'd they change these so much I wonder?

Mostly feels like they nerfed mages/dmg spells in 5e, boo, boo. Less spell slots, less dmg . Fk me, I'm going back to 3.5. 

(BTW, I saw Mr. TreantMungle youtube say less spell slots to make level 20 parties more fun, less slow battles. He also said i htink him, that concentration was to avoid so many stacking spell effects which bogged down battles). The sorcerer class really felt like a nerf from 3.5 to 5e, which is what turned me off of ever playing 5e for so long till the kid and the school dnd stuff. 

Obviously 5e DnD has higher hitpoints and I think better saves at higher level (correct me if I'm wrong). But just looking at raw damage numbers, some weird things have happened from 2e, 3.5e, to 5e. I'm ignoring "upcasting it at a higher level" which maybe is a slight problem due to Warlocks in 5e always casting at higher and higher levels as they go up in level. 

note: getting numbers from 2e's Deck of Wizard Spells book, 3.5e via the dndtools.org site, and 5e via the dndbeyond site... before they start changing to this OneDnD new version stuff. 

note2: some older than 2e stuff from https://dungeonsdragons.fandom.com/wiki/Creeping_doom

note2: using numbers vs. one target for simplicity. 

Fun list: https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/dnd-best-attack-spells

  • Goodberry in 3.5e was limited to 8 HP of healing per day... seems reasonable. But 5e let it be infinite withing 24 hours. Weird and why? 
  • Creeping Doom - spell level 7- in like D&D orig and AD&D, it sounded much cooler and deadlier. In 1e it did up to 100 dmg if all bugs hit, but lots of caveats I guess: 
    • D&D - Calls up a horde of deadly spiders, scorpions, centipedes, and millipedes. They appear in 1d3 turns, and the spell calls 1d10*10 of them. The mass of small creatures can move up to 6" in one turn to attack whatever the caster commands them to attack, and will pursue prey up to the spell's range (or until it or they are destroyed). This spell can be employed underground as well as outdoors.
    • AD&D - 1,000 dmg theoretically, you read that right, if one target and they don't run quick, highest damage ever, good to be a Druid. Conjures a swarm of 1d6+4 * 100 venomous biting and stinging arachnids, insects, and myriapods. The carpet-like mass swarms in an area 2" square, and creeps forth to any target the caster designates within 8" at the rate of 1" per round. Each of the creatures inflicts 1 hp damage against a target in the swarm, and then dies. If the creeping doom goes beyond 8" of the caster, it loses 50 creatures for each 1" beyond 8". Any method that will thwart or destroy a swarm will work agianst a creeping doom.
    • 2e - ?
    • 3.5e - Insect Plague is close but diff.  
    • 5e - Insect Plague, 40 dmg, is close but different, level 5, no creeping just AOE, 4d10. Simplified. 
  • Horrid Wilting aka Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, cool story on the guy here: http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=529 , went from being super powerful at level 20, with a 20d8 dmg in 2e... to now capped at 12d8 in 5e. Hugely different... was it due to something on the video game Baldur's Gate 2 where people were struggling against the computer's team (apparently the devs used a bunch of Horrid Wilting spells on bad guys b/c no friendly fire, easier on the AI)? Or maybe it was nerfed b/c it's "only" level 8? Maybe not many had resists against it, etc.  


    • 2e = 20d8, at lvl 20. 
    • 3.5e = 20d6, at level 20 (20d8 vs. water elementals, etc.)
    • 5e = 12d8
    • Via the link, "Abi Dalzim, whose name in Ancient Baklunish means 'Father of Droughts,' is both a skilled elementalist and a dreaded practitioner of necromancy." Apparently he was a super villain in the Greyhawk world, of the fictional DnD Baklunish people who are mostly like Arabian folks. 
    • Info on 3.5 here: https://dndtools.org/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/horrid-wilting--2742/ 

  • Lightning Bolt
    • 2e had it bouncing off walls. Seems like it doesn't bounce off walls anymore... even 3.5 removed that, so no double hitting. That's sad. (FYI, creature would only take full damage on one of the bolts, others are auto half damage sounds like). 
    • 2e also had it so you could make it 10 feet wide and go less range, or 5 ft wide max range. And you could start it anywhere within range, didnt have to be at your fingertips. 
    • 2e = max of 10d6 at level 10
  • Fireball in 
    • 2e = max of 10d6 at level 10
    • 3.5e = max of 10d6
    • 5e = max of 8d6
  • Delayed Blast Fireball in
    • 2e = max of 10d6 + 10
    • 3.5e = max of 20d6 at level 20
    • 5e = max of 22d6 ... aka 12d6 + 1d6 per turn (up to a minute).
  • Disintegrate - hugely nerfed, wtf. 
    • 3.5e = 240 aka 40d6 at level 20
    • 5e =  100 aka 10d6 + 40 force damage
  • Power Word, Kill
    • 2e = 60 HP or less one creature (or ... mult creatures if 10 HP or less). Current HP, BTW.
    • 3.5e = 100 HP or less one creature example
    • 5e = 100 HP or less one creature example
  • Meteor Swarm, actually went up in max damage from 2e to 5e. Well there is a surprise, I guess b/c they made all level 20 char stuff crazy(like moon druids w/ infinite wildshape?). And I guess to reflect the level 9ness of it. And probably everybody has resist fire and whatnot in 5e at high levels, I dunno. 
    • 2e 160 dmg max, and only if you are in the middle. 10d4 per each of 4 big spheres, for example, with overlap taking extra (only middle takes max). 
    • 3.5e, 192 dmg max ... AKA it could do 2d6 bludg, then 6d6 fire. Times 4, b/c you can put all 4 big spheres on one opponent. https://dndtools.org/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/meteor-swarm--2632/
    • 5e, 240 dmg max... 20d6 fire + 20d6 bludg, so 240 dmg total, overlap doesn't matter.  
      • BTW, in the Shadow over Mystara arcade game, it definitely came from the sky, but in 2e and 3.5e it definitely says it streaks from your fingers (and in 2e at least, all folks in the way take damage with no save if they are betw you and the landing spot, aka they are in the streaks). 




Bigby's Hand (5e reference surely)

Why is it such a great offensive spell?

  • This is like Aladdin’s carpet if it was more powerful. Fly around on it and cast spells while providing yourself some cover.
  • Using the hand’s abilities only costs a bonus action, so you get to keep casting all the spells you want, then using the hand as an afterthought.
  • You can upcast the spell for more damage which already starts at 4d8 for the clenched fist.
  • It’s a great all-around spell for offense but its versatility makes it a must-have spell. Just there to give you a “hand” when you need it most.

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